oh Well

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Celtic Warrior,

In all fairness of the truth - you should post links to the indoctrination of Israeli children against Palestinians.

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In all fairness of the truth - you should post links to the indoctrination of Israeli children against Palestinians.

PV,

All this talk of "fairness" makes it clear that you are a closet Muslim who favors Sharia and supports global Jihad. Take a seat on the "Group W" bench (arcane song reference).

you mean next to the father r@pers

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you mean next to the father r@pers

and mother stabbers...

right there next to me on the group w bench...


(couldn't refuse!)

There was an entire investigation on the Israeli intelligence pertaining to 9/11. It's not a conspiracy.

As far as Osama taking credit...It really isn't about who takes credit, but who is actually involved. Three buildings fell that day...The third building had already been prepped to be pulled - it wasn't even hit by aircraft. Doesn't take a genius to know that something isn't right with the entire scenario being all attributed by planes flown by terrorists???

The point being...Everyone keeps talking about how Israel has the right to exist - but no one is really looking at the FACT that they have broken all treaties and humanitarian laws and while thousands of Palestinians are dying and not being allowed humanitarian aid - people support Israel???


WHY ORTHODOX JEWS ARE OPPOSED TO A ZIONIST STATE

First some introductions:

1) What is "The People of Israel" ?

The People of Israel have existed for thousands of years.
They have their own particular, essential nature.
The Torah is the source of their essential nature.
Without Torah and Faith there is no People of Israel.
Whoever denies the Torah and the Faith is no longer part of the People of Israel.
The purpose of the People of Israel in this world is Divine Service.
Their salvation is occupation in Divine Service.

2) What is Zionism?

Zionism is a relatively new thing.
It has only existed for a century.
Zionism redefines the true essential nature of the People of Israel, and substitutes for it a completely contradictory and opposite character - a materialistic worldly nation.
Their misfortune is lack of what other nations possess, i.e. a state and army.
Their salvation is possession of a state and army etc.
This is clearly spelled out in the circles of Zionist thought, and among the leaders of the Zionist State, that through changing the nature and character of the People of Israel and by changing their way of thinking they can set before the People of Israel "their salvation" -- a state and an army.

The People of Israel oppose the so-called "State of Israel" for four reasons:

FIRST -- The so-called "State of Israel" is diametrically opposed and completely contradictory to the true essence and foundation of the People of Israel, as is explained above. The only time that the People of Israel were permitted to have a state was two thousand years ago when the glory of the creator was upon us, and likewise in the future when the glory of the creator will once more be revealed, and the whole world will serve Him, then He Himself (without any human effort or force of arms) will grant us a kingdom founded on Divine Service. However, a worldly state, like those possessed by other peoples, is contradictory to the true essence of the People of Israel. Whoever calls this the salvation of Israel shows that he denies the essence of the People of Israel, and substitutes another nature, a worldly materialistic nature, and therefore sets before them, a worldly materialistic "salvation," and the means of achieving this "salvation" is also worldly and materialistic i.e. to organize a land and army. However, the true salvation of the People of Israel is to draw close to the Creator. This is not done by organization and force of arms. Rather it is done by occupation to Torah and good deeds.

SECOND -- Because of all of this and other reasons the Torah forbids us to end the exile and establish a state and army until the Holy One, blessed He, in His Glory and Essence will redeem us. This is forbidden even if the state is conducted according to the law of the Torah because arising from the exile itself is forbidden, and we are required to remain under the rule of the nations of the world, as is explained in the book VAYOEL MOSHE. If we transgress this injunction, He will bring upon us (may we be spared) terrible punishment.

THIRD -- Aside from arising from exile, all the deeds of the Zionists are diametrically opposed to the Faith and the Torah. Because the foundation of the Faith and Torah of Israel is that the Torah was revealed from heaven, and there is reward for those who obey it and punishment for those who transgress it. The entire People of Israel is required to obey the Torah, and whoever doesn't want to, ceases to be part of the congregation of Israel.

FOURTH -- Aside from the fact that they themselves do not obey the Torah they do everything they can to prevent anyone they get under their power from fulfilling the commands of the Torah, the claims to freedom of religion are lies. They fight with all of their strength to destroy the Faith of Israel.

The Zionists claim that they are the saviors of Israel, but this is refuted by twelve things:

FIRST -- If one contemplates the two thousand years of our exile, take any hundred years even the hardest, one will not find as much suffering, bloodshed, and catastrophes for the People of Israel in the period of the Zionists, and it is known that most of the suffering of this century was caused by the Zionists, as our Rabbis warned us would be the case.

SECOND -- It is openly stated in books written by the founders of Zionism that the means by which they planned to establish a state was by instigating anti-Semitism, and undermining the security of the Jews in all the lands of the world, until they would be forced to flee to their state. And thus they did - They intentionally infuriated the German people and fanned the flames of Nazi hatred, and they helped the Nazis, with trickery and deceit, to take whole Jewish communities off to the concentration camps, and the Zionists themselves admit this. (See the books Perfidy, Min Hameitzor, etc.). The Zionists continue to practice this strategy today. They incite anti-Semitism and then they present themselves as the "saviors". Here are two replies given by Leaders of the Zionists during World War II, when they were asked for money to help ransom Jews from the Nazis. Greenbaum said "One cow in Palestine is worth more than all the Jews in Poland." (G-d forbid).
Weitzman said, "The most important part of the Jewish people is already in the land (of Israel) and those who are left, are unimportant" (May we be spared).

THIRD -- We see that most of world Jewry lives in security and under good physical conditions, and have no desire to go live in the Zionist State. Whereas many people have left the Zionist State to live under better conditions in other lands.

FOURTH -- The Zionists make a great deal of propaganda to induce people to immigrate to their state. If their state is so beneficial why do they have to make so much propaganda.

FIFTH -- Because nobody wants the Zionists to "save" them. The only way they can get immigrants is by promising poor people material benefits, and even then very few people respond.

SIXTH -- The Zionist State is always threatened by the dangers of war. Whereas the rest of world Jewry live in peace and security, (Except in a few places where the Zionists have undermined their security and fanned the flames of hatred)

SEVENTH -- The Zionist State could not continue to exist without economic support from Jews living outside of the Zionist State.

EIGHTH -- The Zionist State is on the verge of economic collapse, and their money is nearly worthless.

NINTH -- The Zionist State persecute all Jews who are loyal to their Faith.

TENTH -- They start wars that endanger the Jewish People, for the sake of their own political interests.

ELEVENTH - According to the Torah the path of safety is following ways of peace not starting fights with other nations, as the Zionists do.

TWELFTH -- Even if the Zionists could and would provide physical security it would be at the expense of our Faith and Our Torah the true People of Israel prefer death rather than life at such a cost.

It is therefore clear that Zionism is not the savior of the people of Israel. Rather it is their greatest misfortune.

Even though there are some observant Jews and rabbis, who approve of the Zionists, this is not the opinion of the Torah.

The Zionists have enough control over the American news media to make sure that only their side of the story is heard.

They make it look like all Jewry and their rabbis are Zionists, but this is false propaganda.

The most important Rabbis and the majority of religious Jewry are opposed to Zionism, but their voice is not heard because of Zionist control of American news media.

The Zionists terrorize everyone who speaks out against them.

That part of the Jewish masses which is fooled by Zionist propaganda puts pressure on their Rabbis not to speak out.

Between the terror and the pressure of the masses most of the Rabbis are prevented from speaking out.

We bring three testimonies of the true opinion of the Torah.

1) In the past two thousand years of the dangers and sufferings of exile not once did any of the Sages of Israel suggest that we make a state to protect ourselves. In every generation we had thousands of Sages well versed in the Torah.

2) We have thousands of legal work of Torah law that have been handed down to us by the Sages of all generations. Not once do we see a word suggesting the establishment of a state. What we do find is warnings against it.

3) The founders of Zionism were all atheists who denied the Torah. All the Torah Sages of that time opposed them and opposed Zionism, saying that Zionism would lead only to destruction.

However the true People of Israel will never change their nature or give up their Faith because of the strength the Creator gives them.

Zionism is a foreign growth in the body of the Jewish People. The end will be that it will rid itself of this foreign growth and remain pure.

Zionism has overcome the Jewish people by force, fraud and terror, but none of this will help them because the truth will always remain with the help of the Creator.

Zionism will not replace the Jewish People. The Jewish People will remain strong in their faith and the Zionist State will cease to exist.

It is therefore, our demand that the State that calls itself ISRAEL, should cease to exist. Since this won't be done, we demand that they cease to call themselves "Israel", because their entire being is in complete opposition to the true People of Israel. The true People of Israel deny them permission to call themselves by that name. The Zionist leaders have no right to set themselves up as the representatives and spokesmen of the true People of ISRAEL.

Since we know they will not fulfill this demand either we feel that at least we cry out the truth. The truth will always remain the truth. By no means or force can the truth be changed. Even if all the world would say that one and one is three, the truth will remain that one and one is two.

Let the truth be declared. The use of the Name "ISRAEL" by that State is a complete falsification. The People of Israel have nothing to do with that State. Zionism and its State have no share and no part in the true ISRAEL.

Quotation Taken From This Site

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Far from it, Fred - However, Orthodox Jews and Arabs lived together quite peacefully and are supporting Muslims through this occupation.

Throughout history Muslims have always killed all non-Muslims on sight, PV. It's required by the Quran. Muslims hate peace. There's not even a word for peace in the Muslim language. That's a true fact.

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Much like the divisions of Judaism there are branches of Sharia interpretation and it is only extremists that turn it into inhumane practices.

The two branches of Sharia are the "stoning" branch and the "beheading" branch. It's beheading for minor offenses like parking ticket and dancing. Stoning is reserved for the bad stuff like not wearing a hajib and dancing to house-techno.

You need to study up, PV. Sharia is coming to get you.

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Did you see the links where Israelis knew prior to the first plane hitting the towers 9/11 - they had prior knowledge and did not report it?

Don't go nutter on me here, PV. To claim some complicity by the Israelis in purposefully allowing 9-11 is beyond idiocy. Come toward the light.

Great post Fred: WTG

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Originally posted by Celtic Warrior:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?f...bedded&v=rKX1VEqiios

I DARE everyone that reads this to watch the entire video. Too much truth for some to bear no doubt. Fred don't have the guts to listen to the truth for fourteen minutes.

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Fred don't have the guts to listen to the truth for fourteen minutes.

Here's the deal, SoT - if you can go 14 minutes without making some stupid ******* comment about Muslims, or any other non-white, non-Christian, non-uber con, non-whack job nutter group I will watch the full video when I get to a computer. Clock starts now...

Israel BEFORE 1948- occupation and State of Israel declared:

Prior to 1948

Jewish Activists Against Israel

International Violations of Israel.

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Originally posted by PreteristView:
Israel BEFORE 1948- occupation and State of Israel declared:

Prior to 1948

Jewish Activists Against Israel

International Violations of Israel.

ISRAEL MUST SAY YES TO OBAMA.
http://www.haaretz.com/print-e...es-to-obama-1.368462